Favor System.... another one of those threads

[Keithark]

Like favor or hate it doesn't matter it is broken and needs to be fixed. PvP should never have anything to do with PvE. Skills nerfed for PvP should remain unnerfed for PvE and faovor should not matter in PvE. There is just no good justification for one having anything to do with the other. And the main arguments I see against fixing favor are all stupid (see below)

1) "you never complained when America had favor all the time".. well, I wasn't here then..and if I was I would not have complained because I would not have noticed...but if I saw someone else complain I would not have flamed them, in fact I would have agreed because it is a PvE place and PvP has no buisness affecting it

2) "only the farmers are complaining" .. So what? Farming is a huge part of the community, once you get 10 characters thru the game the storyline is done so we are left with farming until the next chapter or playing PvP. Since it is near impossible to get into PvP at this point due to the attitude of most PvP players and rank disc, etc farming is the remaining savior of the player base

3) "if you want favor earn it, go win halls" .. Even if I did go "win halls" how could I hold halls and go to FoW at the same time? Also I have a real life so I only have limited time to play and if I spend that time winning halls then there would be no time left for doing what I wanted to do in the first place which is go to FoW.

[Superdarth]

Originally Posted by Keithark

Like favor or hate it doesn't matter it is broken and needs to be fixed. PvP should never have anything to do with PvE. Skills nerfed for PvP should remain unnerfed for PvE and faovor should not matter in PvE. There is just no good justification for one having anything to do with the other. And the main arguments I see against fixing favor are all stupid (see below)

That is just youre opinion, it is not fact and it is not in any way broken, it works the way A-net intended it to work. It dousnt work the way you want it to work but that dousnt mean its broken

1) "you never complained when America had favor all the time".. well, I wasn't here then..and if I was I would not have complained because I would not have noticed...but if I saw someone else complain I would not have flamed them, in fact I would have agreed because it is a PvE place and PvP has no buisness affecting it

Are you sure thats the case?Yes or no for most i am pretty sure they wouldnt complain for the simple reason that it would have no bad effects on them, and that it dous have negative effects for another continent is not considered their problem, and thus not important.

2) "only the farmers are complaining" .. So what? Farming is a huge part of the community, once you get 10 characters thru the game the storyline is done so we are left with farming until the next chapter or playing PvP. Since it is near impossible to get into PvP at this point due to the attitude of most PvP players and rank disc, etc farming is the remaining savior of the player base

I cant believe the reasons some people play guild wars, but this is about the only point i agree on, a complaint is a complaint. IF its a good complaint, wich means more then "oh noes i cant farm!!!1!1!!!1oneoneeleven" Not saying everyone complains like that but those that do should be ignored.

3) "if you want favor earn it, go win halls" .. Even if I did go "win halls" how could I hold halls and go to FoW at the same time? Also I have a real life so I only have limited time to play and if I spend that time winning halls then there would be no time left for doing what I wanted to do in the first place which is go to FoW.

Its not ment to be up to one super hero to come in and save the day, the continent has to work together ,create strong groups and win the HoH, no thats not the end of it. It isnt supposed to be the end of it. Its a great prize and one that the continent has to defend. Not just you, the continent. So you have to trust on others to defend it. I dont think thats bad (this is a MMORPG after all, not a single player game), but im sure you and others will disagree.

As a matter of fact im pretty sure youl disagree with all my comments.

[seut]

I'm a european and i have players from 4 continents on my friends list. I often play in international districts. The open favour weekend was one of the most fun events for us.
Scroll drops are too rare to be a solution. I've vanquished 40+ areas and played about the same number of missions in hardmode and i've seen 3 dropping.


For the people who claim HA is about skill: look at the numbers!
http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/ladder/default.php
America 261 Guilds 26.1%
Taiwan 14 Guilds 1.4%
Europe 648 Guilds 64.8%
Japan 60 Guilds 6.0%
Korea 17 Guilds 1.7%

Europe has the highest number of GvG playing guilds. It's save to assume that the numbers for HA are similar. It's not skill, it's victory by being the majority.

For me the favour system is the prime example that Anet can be too stubborn to listen to the community!

[Swift Thief]

Originally Posted by Superdarth

There is nothing whrong with the favour system. In this case you have to work for acess to fow and the likes, if Europeans PvP the most (and WIN the most, two diffrent things, just becauser you play often dousnt mean youre skilled enough to take on japanese/americans) then they deserve the majority of the favour. America wants favour?Well nothing is stopping them from fighting for it. Not good enough to win?Then Europe deserves the favour. Sorry but imho thats how it is and ment to be.

Europeans deserve favor because they have no lives? Oh, okay. Thanks. But really, Seut's post is good. People say its fair, but since it is safe to say that Europeans make up 55-60%+ of the Guild Wars population, it makes a lot of sense why they constantly have favor. Americans can't be good enough to win if the HoH is like this: America vs. Europe vs. Europe. Then, America is out of the HoH so: Europe vs. Europe vs. Europe. Then, Japan comes: Japan vs. Europe vs. Europe.

[Keithark]

Originally Posted by Superdarth

That is just youre opinion, it is not fact and it is not in any way broken, it works the way A-net intended it to work. It dousnt work the way you want it to work but that dousnt mean its broken



Are you sure thats the case?Yes or no for most i am pretty sure they wouldnt complain for the simple reason that it would have no bad effects on them, and that it dous have negative effects for another continent is not considered their problem, and thus not important.



I cant believe the reasons some people play guild wars, but this is about the only point i agree on, a complaint is a complaint. IF its a good complaint, wich means more then "oh noes i cant farm!!!1!1!!!1oneoneeleven" Not saying everyone complains like that but those that do should be ignored.



Its not ment to be up to one super hero to come in and save the day, the continent has to work together ,create strong groups and win the HoH, no thats not the end of it. It isnt supposed to be the end of it. Its a great prize and one that the continent has to defend. Not just you, the continent. So you have to trust on others to defend it. I dont think thats bad (this is a MMORPG after all, not a single player game), but im sure you and others will disagree.

As a matter of fact im pretty sure youl disagree with all my comments.

1) "not broken...the way a-net intended" -- i disagree I think A-net intended this to bridge the gap between PvP and PvE, but it failed and drove a wedge. Why do you think a-net made the favor system as it is? Do you think they intended people to change their server just so they could go to FoW? I doubt it. Do you think they intended to make it so the different countries would fight for favor of the gods so that they (their country) could go to FoW? Perhaps but that is not the reason anyone goes to HA so that failed too..and thus the favor system is broken and does need fixed.

2) the only people I can see who have a "reason" for wanting favor to stay the same are the people who say "i had to deal when America had favor so now it's your turn" or the ones who want exclusive right to farm ecto and sell them to those of us who cannot go get our own so they are afraid ecto would drop too low. To the first group..black people had to deal with slavery way back when so black people now should?? I know I know there is absolutely no comparison in the act of slavery and getting to play a game but the thinking behind it is the same...stupid. To the second group...why should you have the ability to make all the money just because you live over the pond or because you don't mind to be on empty servers where you cannot get a group of people together because nobody is there but farmers?

3) "not meant to be one super hero" well the whole point is that if I wanted to PvP then I would be doing that not wanting to get into FoW. The people who care so much about the broken favor system are people like me who want nothing to do with PvP so forcing us to PvP in order to be able to PvE is not a very good plan.

One last point on "the way a-net intended it" If you remember A-net "intended" you to play thru PvE and then PvP with your PvE character and equipment, now you can buy a PvP unlock and they are even going to make it so you can get cool skins to PvP with and never have to set foot in PvE...I don't hear you crying about "how a-net intended it" on that subject do I?

[Sniper22]

Originally Posted by Razorwood

I remember a time when American had favour most of the time, if this happens again will you still complain the favour system is broke?



So by that you're saying that Europeans don't go to work or schoo?



The scrolls don't actually drop in the UW (Well they might be they certainly aren't limited there).

Since they drop from bosses and chests in Hardmode (Which i'd imagen is playable on the US servers). What's the problem? I fail to see why Europeans will be the ones finding all the scrolls.



I'd have to ask the farmer why they paid so much for it.



Favor changes hands via PvP which is player influenced, EU are winning more in HoH to hold favor. That can change on a day to day basis.

Now how about this for unfair, both promotional mini pets that were giving away to English language players (Gray Giant and Asura) came out in the US market months before Europe.

Giving the US players the chance to sell them for 100k+ by the time the EU market got them there value was what 15k? Personally i'd say that is more broken than the favor system, since the European players can't really do anything about that (Certainly not within the game it's self)

Where as if America wants favor all it has to do is win in HoH, granted it might not be that easy, but it's something you have control over.



I have no problem farming gold items, in fact i'm a European player and I haven't been in the UW for months and I have no problem making gold.

Also life isn't fair.

kk

1) Ya I always thought the favor system was unfair, i've been playing this for 2 years. And this wont change, the high korean/american population was just temporary due to the hype of the game coming out... Now the game has settled down and you won't see much player population changes.

2) K I didn't know about UW scrolls, my bad

3) Again, my bad lol, but most likely people will have to buy these scrolls and pay more to get into UW and making less of a profit

4) Europe always wins, always... They make up so much of the majority

5) About those minipets, Americans shouldn't have to pay with real cash to get some ingame money... so thats not a real way to make money

6) Ya i tried to play HoH sometimes, I get far occasionally, but for an American team to get 5 straight wins.... thats nearly impossible. I noticed three times recently that at 10 PM (est) we had one win to go, and then some thing like this came up.... [MOJO] has won the favor for europe... And then after that [xxx] has won a battle in hoh, america needs 4 more wins... again....

7) Share your secrets cause making gold is a pain... hate grinding for hours in areas to get a few crappy gold high req drops

8) Life may be unfair, but this is a video game (not life) created by people, so they should be able to make it fair.

BTW, I'm not saying Europeans dont work or go to school, I'm just saying there is always a few great European groups that are still playing late when its like 10 PM (est) like the MOJO guild and keep the favor for europe.

[Aera Lure]

Originally Posted by Thunder79

NO! That's the same god damn thing.

Break the damn tie to PvP...[ ... ]

All PvE players are asking for is a PvE requirement to control favor on each character instead of the current PvP requirement. [ ... ]

I'm by and large a PvE player and I dont ask for that. Why would we want to do that? Having some ties for some things into PvP is a good idea in theory even if it is sometimes hard in preacticality. I see no problem at all with the favor system, as I said before. The only reasons any PvE player has to go to FoW or Underworld is to visit the Forgemaster or farm in the Underworld, unless they just wish to explore. Underworld farming isnt even as good as many other places these days, and there are many other places to go when you cant visit these two places to play in, so the only thing we're really talking about as a necessity for access is the Forgemaster.

In that case, I do have sympathy for Japan and Korea and passage scrolls are, or need to be, a better option for them, but by and large, get over it if you arent in those two regions. Its no big deal. I see America with favor often enough late and if you have to have a trip to the Forgemaster, you can get it. They're exclusive regions for a reason. Its an interesting, if sometimes frustrating, dynamic of the game.

The balthazar point system for purchasing passage scrolls is a good compromise. You can go AB for a little while for that. Doesnt take that much effort for Lyssa's sake.

[Kakumei]

Oh man I was just going to ignore this until people started making extraordinarily retarded arguments.

Originally Posted by Razorwood

Also life isn't fair.

Life also isn't a video game rigorously controlled by a video game company.

Don't make stupid analogies.

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Well, in that case, PvP players would have other PvP things they could do until they had favor, but it doesnt work that way. Instead, its simply PvE players can have access to most any area, but need to wait for regional favor to get into FoW and Underworld.

If they restricted GvG in the same manner as the Underworld/Fissure, people would quit the game entirely even moreso than they already have. It's a stupid system, and there's no reason to have it in place.

There's no reason to need to get into either, unless you are seeking the Forgemaster.

Or farming. Or exploring. Or questing. Or just screwing around with friends.

When you've done everything else the game has to offer, and you want to do these last couple areas--whoops you can't, because people from your country aren't winning at HA at the moment! Sucks for you!

[Aera Lure]

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Oh man I was just going to ignore this until people started making extraordinarily retarded arguments.

Now now. Was that absolutely necessary?

Originally Posted by Kakumei

If they restricted GvG in the same manner as the Underworld/Fissure, people would quit the game entirely even moreso than they already have. It's a stupid system, and there's no reason to have it in place.

I never implied that. Or meant to anyway. I agree that PvE action restricting PvP modes would be quite a poor choice and would damage PvP far more than the other way around as we have the favor system working now. I was simply working off the hypothetical that someone else raised as a what if.

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Or farming. Or exploring. Or questing. Or just screwing around with friends.

Mhmm. I was only pointing out the only reason you have to have access is the Forgemaster. Been there done that with friends and guildies in both areas. Thing is, all of these things here actually can be done in a number of other places, too. Not saying i dont enjoy the old forge runs or ecto hunts or just wandering around in there.

If you're going to have limitations of some sort on some areas of PvE, then quite simply there are going to be times for those areas, by definition of some sort of limitation mechanism, that you cant go do those things in a given area. There are then also going to be rewards for those that pass the limitations. That's all that's going on. If it was some other system limiting the access, and it wasnt favor, then rest assured some would complain about that system instead.

Raises more the question of should there be some areas that are limited? I vote yes, here, because if you had equal and easy access to everything then it loses its appeal a bit. I like the favor system. I like it better than the elite mission system in factions and i like how it reminds me when I see the announcements of the PvP fare going on while I am in PvE. I think the original concept of linking the two that way was great, but we are seeing some drawbacks, particularly Korea and Japan I feel bad for.

We now have the passage scrolls to aid those who need or wish to get in but dont have favor. Helps. I thought it was a brilliant idea somewhere back there to have Balthazar points be able to purchase these in addition to them dropping. I thought another good idea is to buff a bit their drop frequency in hard mode areas external to Underworld and FoW dynamically, so that regions that see less favor see a slightly higher drop rate of scrolls.

Originally Posted by Kakumei

When you've done everything else the game has to offer, and you want to do these last couple areas--whoops you can't, because people from your country aren't winning at HA at the moment! Sucks for you!

Yeah, well, see above. Imho its their somewhat limited access that brings a bit more appeal to them. I always had fun when the guild did forge runs regularly and we all started counting down the wins and organizing a team and showing up at ToA. I think we would have lost a little bit of the attraction had it simply been just another area you could go to any old time you pleased.

[seut]

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

I thought it was a brilliant idea somewhere back there to have Balthazar points be able to purchase these in addition to them dropping.

That would be nice to have such a reliable source for UW/FoW passage scrolls and not just random drops.

[Shadis]

Originally Posted by makosi

I still remember when Korea and America took favour a combined 90% of the time and Europe had to do without and we were powerless to do anything about it.

My mother is renowned for her wise statements such as: "Tough S**t," which I think applies here.

I don't believe the favour system has created diverse wealth margins between Europe and America or at least that's what I see.

Then you and those playing in your region should understand firsthand just how broken the system is. Are you saying because the balance has tilted to your favor that you don't see it as a problem anymore? It's been a problem since day one. If you never complained about the system, then I apologize for singling your post out.

It isn't really about wealth for a lot of people. Most of us just want to play in these areas, having the current status of a world some care nothing for (PvP) dictate the PvE areas we can play is a silly and misguided notion, it always has been. These Scrolls were a good idea that was poorly implemented. Make them a bit more common please.

[seut]

Originally Posted by Shadis

These Scrolls were a good idea that was poorly implemented. Make them a bit more common please.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Game_updates/20070524

The Underworld and Fissure of Woe
Passage scrolls now have a chance of dropping from monsters slain in the Underworld and the Fissure of Woe so that players have a chance to earn free passage back to these areas.

*wish granted* (i hope the drop rate is higher than from HM bosses)

[Kakumei]

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

If it was some other system limiting the access, and it wasnt favor, then rest assured some would complain about that system instead.

Well, yeah, of course. The entire point here is that there shouldn't be limited access to a PvE area, especially not when that access is controlled by PvP.

Raises more the question of should there be some areas that are limited? I vote yes, here, because if you had equal and easy access to everything then it loses its appeal a bit.

So have some other sort of limitation. Something based in PvE--an extensive quest/questchain, or the like, to unlock access to UW/FoW. That wouldn't be too great either, but it beats the shit out of favor.

I thought it was a brilliant idea somewhere back there to have Balthazar points be able to purchase these in addition to them dropping.

Not really because that still requires PvP.

[Keithark]

Originally Posted by seut

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Game_updates/20070524


*wish granted* (i hope the drop rate is higher than from HM bosses)

How the hell is this wish granted?? Slap in the face if anything...you cannot go to FoW without finding uber rare scrolls oh..but now you can buy them from people who can go there and you can pay 5 k for them which now takes 1 hour to farm because we screwed up farming too!!!!

[WasAGuest]

Unless they add a PvE way to gain Balth faction; adding the ability to spend Balth faction to gain access to FoW/UW will result in more afkers and leechers to PvP areas.

Simply put, PvEers that do not like GW PvP; will see yet another way to sit and get what they want; in other words, leeching.

Personally, I consider favor to be immersion breaking and annoying spam. Perhaps Anet should temp ban the favor system for spamming ( ). I do not know anyone who PvPs anymore, nor do I care. I'm almost 100% sure my silly looking pig tailed monk hasn't a clue who or what Europe is and what that "voice" is telling her while she is trying to get Koss to stay on target...

[Eldin]

The scrolls may appear as a quick fix, but personally I've never seen one drop.

In ways their price and droprate may not be as efficient as waiting until 11PM EDT for the Europeans to go nightnight.

[SpeedyKQ]

The scrolls are a step in the right direction, but they aren't dropping enough. I've vanquished 12 areas and done about 15 hard mode missions and haven't seen one drop yet. Neither has my wife, who has done about the same amount.

Add the scrolls to the scroll trader, or make them rewards for some of the quests that are desperately lacking rewards like SF or titan quests. The recent update of making them drop for people who already have access feels like a cruel joke. Wouldn't it make a lot of sense if the guy who gives you a book of secrets or amulet of the mists also hands you a couple of access scrolls? Congratulations, you beat the game, as a reward here is a ticket to the endgame content.

And right now there is no benefit for Protector, Vanquisher, or Guardian titles. Elite mission access would be a very fitting reward, I think.

[Aera Lure]

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Well, yeah, of course. The entire point here is that there shouldn't be limited access to a PvE area, especially not when that access is controlled by PvP.

I think more the point is some regions have much more limited access than others. True, that's tied to a PvP mechanism, but I think most agree on some areas having a limitation of some sort in place.

Originally Posted by Kakumei

So have some other sort of limitation. Something based in PvE--an extensive quest/questchain, or the like, to unlock access to UW/FoW. That wouldn't be too great either, but it beats the shit out of favor.

In your opinion anyway. I dont even PvP and am completely fine with favor. I do think the passage scroll implementation could use some tweaking to help those regions in a lull and/or those who cant or dont wish to wait for favor. Its a good compromise, but its not at all useful to have them drop more often in the Underworld and FoW. Not terribly anyway. You have to get there first.

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Not really because that still requires PvP.

There's where we differ. As I described in my other post I rather like the original concept of playing in PvE while gaining a sense of what was going on in one facet of PvP though favor and cheering a run and potential win while getting ready to go. Its like a sporting event. I like that more than removing it completely and adding a tedium PvE quest chain to gain entry whenever one wishes - but we simply agree we differ on that.

[avanger9220]

i just wont to states scrolls hardly drop in fow ether. ive cleared*all but forrest and spider cave* it three times now and never got one to drop in there. so scrolls werent much of afix. i agree with buying the scrolls from balthazaar faction. Leechers will always be in pvp no matter what

[seut]

i completed my Legendary Vanquisher last night..i got 3 fow scrolls after clearing every explorable in this game!